Comments on: A critique on the changing face of video and MTV’s new website in order to discuss challenges facing rich media web designers http://www.metafluence.com/a-critique-on-the-changing-face-of-video-and-mtvs-new-website-in-order-to-discuss-challenges-facing-rich-media-web-designers/ This is beyond marketing, it is manipulation Thu, 11 Mar 2010 08:47:23 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.2 By: Justin http://www.metafluence.com/a-critique-on-the-changing-face-of-video-and-mtvs-new-website-in-order-to-discuss-challenges-facing-rich-media-web-designers/#comment-4288 Justin Tue, 17 Apr 2007 15:34:49 +0000 http://www.metafluence.com/a-critique-on-the-changing-face-of-video-and-mtvs-new-website-in-order-to-discuss-challenges-facing-rich-media-web-designers#comment-4288 <strong>Dragos</strong>, you say, <blockquote>People in the SEO world don't understand that good offline branding is the key for finding information online.</blockquote> I'm not sure if it's that they don't understand it as much as they are so singularly focused that they try to solve everything with SEO. Nevertheless, you make a great point that it takes more than SEO to drive sales. <strong>Josh</strong>, pretty much everything you said gave me a tent. I'm totally excited to cut you loose on some hybridization. I think the work we're going to produce will help push developers to go deeper when making sites that have both a rich presentation layer and solid accessibility that degrades elegantly. Dragos, you say,

People in the SEO world don’t understand that good offline branding is the key for finding information online.

I’m not sure if it’s that they don’t understand it as much as they are so singularly focused that they try to solve everything with SEO. Nevertheless, you make a great point that it takes more than SEO to drive sales.

Josh, pretty much everything you said gave me a tent. I’m totally excited to cut you loose on some hybridization. I think the work we’re going to produce will help push developers to go deeper when making sites that have both a rich presentation layer and solid accessibility that degrades elegantly.

]]> By: josh http://www.metafluence.com/a-critique-on-the-changing-face-of-video-and-mtvs-new-website-in-order-to-discuss-challenges-facing-rich-media-web-designers/#comment-4143 josh Sun, 15 Apr 2007 01:57:38 +0000 http://www.metafluence.com/a-critique-on-the-changing-face-of-video-and-mtvs-new-website-in-order-to-discuss-challenges-facing-rich-media-web-designers#comment-4143 I know this post is old but I'm going to address it anyway :) "There is no doubt that HTML pages can not compete with the animation power of Flash." The advantage of flash is that they have taken the base ECMA scripting language and pushed it far beyond javascript - to support program packaging, classes(and subclassing, still not available in javascript without a shitty hack), and a fairly robust application compiler. With css3(or even 2) and pioneering javascript libraries (aka prototype and scriptaculous, or even dojo(i hate dojo actually) or lesser known ones like moofx) you can absolutely animate with the power of flash.. The hard part is building a solid application (the right way) using dhtml. So while you can emulate flash with dhtml, the real beauty comes in marrying them together to utilize the best of both. Its relatively easy to build a actionscript/javascript bridge (that is what nikestore is doing to make the back button work.. an early ajax hack (hash mark) pushed to its limits IMO) the same way you would build a javascript/php program framework, using a matrix. You and I have talked about hybridizing these technologies before and I know we are both on the same page. I just wanted to throw this out there. I'm so looking forward to being able to really hybridize, and push flash/dhtml/and server side languages cohesively. It gives me that giddy feeling that I had when I first discovered the internet and had my own geocities site 3 days later. There's my ramble for the day.. Peace I know this post is old but I’m going to address it anyway :)

“There is no doubt that HTML pages can not compete with the animation power of Flash.”

The advantage of flash is that they have taken the base ECMA scripting language and pushed it far beyond javascript - to support program packaging, classes(and subclassing, still not available in javascript without a shitty hack), and a fairly robust application compiler.

With css3(or even 2) and pioneering javascript libraries (aka prototype and scriptaculous, or even dojo(i hate dojo actually) or lesser known ones like moofx) you can absolutely animate with the power of flash.. The hard part is building a solid application (the right way) using dhtml. So while you can emulate flash with dhtml, the real beauty comes in marrying them together to utilize the best of both. Its relatively easy to build a actionscript/javascript bridge (that is what nikestore is doing to make the back button work.. an early ajax hack (hash mark) pushed to its limits IMO) the same way you would build a javascript/php program framework, using a matrix.

You and I have talked about hybridizing these technologies before and I know we are both on the same page. I just wanted to throw this out there. I’m so looking forward to being able to really hybridize, and push flash/dhtml/and server side languages cohesively. It gives me that giddy feeling that I had when I first discovered the internet and had my own geocities site 3 days later.

There’s my ramble for the day.. Peace

]]> By: Dragos http://www.metafluence.com/a-critique-on-the-changing-face-of-video-and-mtvs-new-website-in-order-to-discuss-challenges-facing-rich-media-web-designers/#comment-2191 Dragos Mon, 05 Mar 2007 10:13:56 +0000 http://www.metafluence.com/a-critique-on-the-changing-face-of-video-and-mtvs-new-website-in-order-to-discuss-challenges-facing-rich-media-web-designers#comment-2191 "As for SEO problems, if you think about it, most large companies with huge branding and marketing campaigns use Flash for their sites, and they have virtually no needs for SEO, since they are already considered authorities on their particular industries." True. People in the SEO world don't understand that good and offline branding is the key for finding information online. Even if you are #1 in Google for "shoes", but you are a small boutique, people will still enter Nike.com to find their shoes, because at a branding level, you can't compete with Nike. But if you compete with the shoes boutique across the street and you are #1 for "shoes" in your area, thats another story and you are right. But only in this situation, not generally! I say these, because most "SEO people" tend to inform people and their clients that if they rank better in Google than Nike.com or Amazon, they are better. And that's a false promise! As for the rich media design and video and all that, of course we will see a rise of these platforms. Flash is already king and can do most of the old stuff and much more. MTV.com is not the best example though, generally speaking. When Yahoo, Amazon or even Google will use Flash and rich media applications for their stuff, then we will see large improvements. For now, these changes can be seen only in the entertainment markets, because these are the most pron to change. Yeah, I would love to only design Flash websites, having free control on everything. That would be great. But Flash today is not ready to kick off old HTML and the "old ways" to build websites. I will keep focus on Adobe Labs for now, because they will port us to the next level. “As for SEO problems, if you think about it, most large companies with huge branding and marketing campaigns use Flash for their sites, and they have virtually no needs for SEO, since they are already considered authorities on their particular industries.”

True.

People in the SEO world don’t understand that good and offline branding is the key for finding information online.

Even if you are #1 in Google for “shoes”, but you are a small boutique, people will still enter Nike.com to find their shoes, because at a branding level, you can’t compete with Nike.

But if you compete with the shoes boutique across the street and you are #1 for “shoes” in your area, thats another story and you are right. But only in this situation, not generally!

I say these, because most “SEO people” tend to inform people and their clients that if they rank better in Google than Nike.com or Amazon, they are better. And that’s a false promise!

As for the rich media design and video and all that, of course we will see a rise of these platforms. Flash is already king and can do most of the old stuff and much more.

MTV.com is not the best example though, generally speaking.

When Yahoo, Amazon or even Google will use Flash and rich media applications for their stuff, then we will see large improvements.

For now, these changes can be seen only in the entertainment markets, because these are the most pron to change.

Yeah, I would love to only design Flash websites, having free control on everything. That would be great. But Flash today is not ready to kick off old HTML and the “old ways” to build websites.

I will keep focus on Adobe Labs for now, because they will port us to the next level.

]]> By: In search of a better way to design at Metafluence http://www.metafluence.com/a-critique-on-the-changing-face-of-video-and-mtvs-new-website-in-order-to-discuss-challenges-facing-rich-media-web-designers/#comment-895 In search of a better way to design at Metafluence Sun, 14 Jan 2007 02:12:19 +0000 http://www.metafluence.com/a-critique-on-the-changing-face-of-video-and-mtvs-new-website-in-order-to-discuss-challenges-facing-rich-media-web-designers#comment-895 [...] I’ve recently been writing a few posts about the evolution of web design, particularly the impact of rich media, namely Flash, on modern web design. Other web design thinkers, such as Jeff Croft, have also been thinking about the new era of web design and the problems we need to address. [...] [...] I’ve recently been writing a few posts about the evolution of web design, particularly the impact of rich media, namely Flash, on modern web design. Other web design thinkers, such as Jeff Croft, have also been thinking about the new era of web design and the problems we need to address. [...]

]]> By: Justin http://www.metafluence.com/a-critique-on-the-changing-face-of-video-and-mtvs-new-website-in-order-to-discuss-challenges-facing-rich-media-web-designers/#comment-306 Justin Thu, 14 Dec 2006 07:29:47 +0000 http://www.metafluence.com/a-critique-on-the-changing-face-of-video-and-mtvs-new-website-in-order-to-discuss-challenges-facing-rich-media-web-designers#comment-306 Matt, I think you're right about it not being soon. I don't think it's far off, though. In fact, I think it's close enough that now is the time to position yourself if you want to be a leader when it's widely adopted. Matt, I think you’re right about it not being soon. I don’t think it’s far off, though. In fact, I think it’s close enough that now is the time to position yourself if you want to be a leader when it’s widely adopted.

]]> By: Cock blocking Microsoft at Metafluence http://www.metafluence.com/a-critique-on-the-changing-face-of-video-and-mtvs-new-website-in-order-to-discuss-challenges-facing-rich-media-web-designers/#comment-301 Cock blocking Microsoft at Metafluence Wed, 13 Dec 2006 23:57:16 +0000 http://www.metafluence.com/a-critique-on-the-changing-face-of-video-and-mtvs-new-website-in-order-to-discuss-challenges-facing-rich-media-web-designers#comment-301 [...] It appears that since Adobe and Mozilla now have a common enemy, they are aligning to form a joint attack on the evil empire. I’m excited to see how it will all shake out. I also think this further accelerates the need for rich media development standards to alleviate the challenges facing modern web designers. I’d much rather see an open source team win than a corporation. [...] [...] It appears that since Adobe and Mozilla now have a common enemy, they are aligning to form a joint attack on the evil empire. I’m excited to see how it will all shake out. I also think this further accelerates the need for rich media development standards to alleviate the challenges facing modern web designers. I’d much rather see an open source team win than a corporation. [...]

]]> By: Matt http://www.metafluence.com/a-critique-on-the-changing-face-of-video-and-mtvs-new-website-in-order-to-discuss-challenges-facing-rich-media-web-designers/#comment-243 Matt Sun, 03 Dec 2006 19:08:45 +0000 http://www.metafluence.com/a-critique-on-the-changing-face-of-video-and-mtvs-new-website-in-order-to-discuss-challenges-facing-rich-media-web-designers#comment-243 MTV.com is an entertainment site. In general most entertainment sites are more focused on delivering audio and visual experiences, so their priorities are a bit different than say, CNN.com. Flash is the easiest and most robust way of delivering this kind of content. Since it runs in it's own environment (the plug-in), there's no worries about cross-platform/cross-browser issues. It can even interact with databases and has scripting capabilities, only adding to the experience you can provide with it. Good Flash developers will make URLs available for bookmarking particular parts of the Flash site as well. As for SEO problems, if you think about it, most large companies with huge branding and marketing campaigns use Flash for their sites, and they have virtually no needs for SEO, since they are already considered authorities on their particular industries. Flash has it's place, and it's actually a very small niche, as you probably know...but also a very lucrative one. I don't see Flash being replaced any time soon until there is an open source Flash-like system that is better, has better development tools, and has as good of adoption in browsers. MTV.com is an entertainment site. In general most entertainment sites are more focused on delivering audio and visual experiences, so their priorities are a bit different than say, CNN.com. Flash is the easiest and most robust way of delivering this kind of content. Since it runs in it’s own environment (the plug-in), there’s no worries about cross-platform/cross-browser issues. It can even interact with databases and has scripting capabilities, only adding to the experience you can provide with it.

Good Flash developers will make URLs available for bookmarking particular parts of the Flash site as well. As for SEO problems, if you think about it, most large companies with huge branding and marketing campaigns use Flash for their sites, and they have virtually no needs for SEO, since they are already considered authorities on their particular industries.

Flash has it’s place, and it’s actually a very small niche, as you probably know…but also a very lucrative one. I don’t see Flash being replaced any time soon until there is an open source Flash-like system that is better, has better development tools, and has as good of adoption in browsers.

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